In our latest podcast, John Evans, Ed.D., Head Strategist of Knowledge Labs™, interviews Betsy Sanders, a former vice president and general manager with the famously customer service-orientated Nordstrom department store chain and best-selling author of “Fabled Service: Ordinary Acts, Extraordinary Outcomes.”
Disrupting the Customer Service Model to Create an Exceptional Client Experience - John Evans Jr., Ed.D.
- To create a tremendous client experience in a commoditized world, we must find ways to disrupt the standard model of customer service.
- While most organization charts place service-oriented personnel at the bottom, the disrupted model inverts the pyramid and places them at the top.
- The first step is to ensure the experience is focused on what’s important to the client, then empower members of your team to create memorable moments based on each client’s unique needs and expectations.
John Evans: Hi, I’m Dr. Jay. I’m delighted you’re here, and I am so delighted to have our guest on the big show today, Betsy Sanders. Betsy is a pioneer; we owe her a debt of gratitude. Those of us who are earnest and concentrating on this idea of generating a tremendous client experience, Betsy, not just an average, not just a really good, but a tremendous client experience, we owe you so much. My friend, Joseph Michelli from Starbucks and Ritz-Carlton, he and I have just admired your work for years, and I’m so glad you made the 90-minute trek through nine miles here in San Francisco to come talk about this thing called “The Art of Wow,” and I want to start off, Betsy, with this idea of disruption. A businessperson in this day and age cannot take three steps down the sidewalk without hearing the word “disruption.” And “The Art of Wow,” again generating a tremendous client experience that gets talked about in this commoditized world, when done well, is disruption, is it not?
Betsy Sanders: It is absolutely disruption because it has to be off script if it’s ever going to be real and happen.
Evans: Hold the phone, off script – remember we’re talking to financial services people, and CPAs, and attorneys, and philanthropic executives, they don’t want to hear about being off script, right? We are left-brained organisms, Betsy Sanders.
Sanders: Left-brained organisms are the very best people to be off script because you have available to you such an extraordinary amount of rational, thoughtful, careful information, ideas, products, everything that you can give your client or your in-house customer, because many of us are serving in-house so that the people who are customer-, or client facing, can serve really well. So we’re all in service jobs, but when we trust our brains, and our hearts, and our guts is when we give real service. And when we’re fully engaged that way, we fully engage the client. The client wants to be engaged, right?
Evans: That’s exactly right. Let’s back up. It was 1974 and you went to work for Nordstrom. I beg your pardon, it was 1971, I stand corrected.
Sanders: Yes, it’s almost 50 years which…
Evans: You were making $2.72 an hour.
Sanders: I was.
Evans: Several decades later you made an indelible impact on the world. I doubt there is a listener right now that has not been positively impacted by the Nordstrom client experience. And, so it was several decades, you left the firm, and you were the highest paid employee, and you still have tremendous affection for Nordstrom. I love hearing the way you just glow when you talk about your culture at Nordstrom.
You did this disruption at Nordstrom. Just who do you think you are, Betsy Sanders, and how did you do this?
Sanders: Going to work for two years is what my plan was, for $2.72 an hour, with a family of four to support while my husband was in school, how could that turn into this incredible love story? I had just gotten assigned to a tiny department that has since become huge, and so I was a manager. And they asked, could I go to the manager’s meeting. And they stood in front of this meeting, and they said, “You think we’re going to throw all kinds of numbers at you – no. Guess what? We want you to go out and take care of that customer.”
And they said, “So go do it.” And I was on fire. I already loved it. I loved it so much. And I’m an intellectual, I was going to be an academic, right? And so, here I am, all they ask is that I take wonderful care of people, and just, and I was enjoying it so much. But now I got serious. Not a business course to my name. And actually, our tiny department in the smallest store won this customer service contest.
Evans: So it began.
Sanders: We were disruptive of the retail model. And Nordstrom’s had the dream, and I wandered in as this, my husband used to call me, “Little Girl Store Manager,” because within four years I was their first woman store manager, and then two years later was asked to go to California, and that’s history. We made Nordstrom; we gave Nordstrom a national footprint.
You know, I’d like to tell you just a short story because it happened to me yesterday. My husband is a patient of a neurologist, we’re 45 miles away. I allow extra time depending on time of day, I allow an extra half hour. And they have a 15-minute window of forgiveness, but at minute 15, they take you out of the system. So this, yesterday, for whatever reason, everything went wrong on the roads. So I realize I’m going to be three minutes late. So I called and I said, “Look, the only other time this has happened the doctor was angry we didn’t make you make him see us.” I said, “So please can you note we’re not there.” They, bless their hearts, they have to call a management person in. Imagine the restrictions on these people giving even, I mean they give straightforward service fine, but the parameters are so tight on them they can’t even begin to think “wow”, because they can’t even think the slightest possibility.
Evans: So that turns into an anti-wow, and you and I sit in the studio and we talk about it.
Sanders: So I would just tell you, you know, I write about service, and my service leadership, I speak about service leadership. The eyes roll when I get to the most important chapter, and that’s that service must be built into the systems. Every system we have, whether it’s a payroll system, or a billing system, or a telephone system, service has to be built in because otherwise we cannot be spontaneous.
Evans: Let’s get really prescriptive here, Betsy. What should these teams do to really [achieve] more wow? It’s like more cow bell, right, from Will Ferrell. We want more wow. We want to hire quantity and hire quality, what should these teams start doing right now? Not tomorrow, right now.
Sanders: So why is it important? Not for the company, but why was it important to me to be wowed from day one, and engender wow in everyone? Why was that important to me? I mean I can answer the question, it’s obviously rhetorical. I have just adopted the title in my family. I’m the Chief Joy Officer.
Evans: I love it.
Sanders: Yes, and I think that’s what I’m going to put on my business cards, and I’m going to tell you all if you engage me in any way you’re engaging a Joy Officer because why it’s important to anybody who is listening at any level is that your life matters. Your life matters, and if we start from there… My life matters, how I spend my day matters… and it doesn’t matter if we’re doing delicate brain surgery, or if we’re pumping gas, you know what I’m saying, it’s not anything about the substance of the job, or the client, or the customer, it’s about your own personal substance. And when we recognize our own substance, when we recognize that’s important, then we start realizing it’s true of anybody who appears in front of us. And the very first tool was the fact that, in reality – and we even used this in our annual reports, this was our official organization chart, but it doesn’t have to be, it has to be a mentality – that while the person at the top of the organization is the most responsible, you know, held most highly responsible, that those responsible for delivering whatever our products and services are, are at what typically is the bottom. So we turned the pyramid upside down. And when I came to interview, which was, I needed a job desperately because my husband was going back to school, I was told, “We can’t put you in management even though you have a master’s degree in all these languages and all the stuff you do, and it didn’t apply at all, because here.” And they pull out the org chart, they had just gone public, and there at the top of the organization chart were our customers. And then they have the first line, and the first line is all the customer-facing people.
Evans: So these financial advisory teams, they’re listening right now…
Evans: CPA teams, philanthropic groups, or philanthropic folks, they should, the first action step you’re asking…
Evans: I think you’re commanding…
Sanders: Yes, this is a system that works. I am highly suggesting. It’s not mine to command, but to inspire. If we can inspire the thinking this way that you are, everyone in the organization, your organization, forget the entire organization right now however complex, but the part you’re responsible for, none of you have a position without your customers. And I’m going to speak to internal customers as I’m saying this because it’s just as true of internal customers. So if you’re not outside client, customer-facing, you have very significant internal customers…
Evans: Wow matters internally, it’s germane as well to the internal person.
Sanders: Without internal wow you’ll never have external wow.
Evans: Wow, what a comment.
Sanders: Yeah, I’ve never made that comment before, thanks for inspiring it. And as you move down the organization you finally get to the little tiny place, you know, the point of the pyramid on the bottom, and that’s where the executives are. But think what they’re being fed by, the executives when you think this way. This was the Nordstrom’s totally disruptive thinking, totally disruptive. And, you know, let’s say I’m moving ahead in the company but I’m moving down, with the responsibility is getting large. If you think of a pyramid, and you know how it’s formed, and it’s upside down, think of how your arms are spreading to support people. And you know they need that support, so you automatically, as you move typically up the organization, as you move up in responsibility down the organization, you automatically put into place what these people need most to succeed at their jobs.
Evans: So it’s just a natural consequence.
Sanders: It’s, well if, unless you’re working the system to do something else.
Sanders: This is very left brain; this part is quite left brain to get right brain behavior, creative behavior…
Evans: On this one, yeah, that’s right.
Evans: So we’re leveraging left brain…
Sanders: Yes, which we have plenty of in this audience.
Evans: We certainly do, to really catalyze, or unlock value…
Evans: For wow, for meaning-making with clients.
Sanders: So just think there isn’t a client or a customer who comes to us without knowing what they want. I mean, they might not be able to tell us, like just think how many times a retailer hears, “Just looking.” Nobody spends precious time just looking. Nobody spends your time as an agent, or a broker, or a representative in any way just looking. They’re not really doing that. So I’m going to go from the left brain to the right brain, okay. So, this is how you engage. So this, the only rule at Nordstrom, there was a one-page rule book with one sentence on it. Now I understand it’s not a regulated industry. I get all that. Those regulations are part of allowing all of the people that Janus Henderson supports, all of your clients and you, that allows you to do your work. It’s very good, and safety. Those are safety factors. Let’s get beyond safety. So the rule was “Use your own best judgement at all times.” And so, what does that mean? But the second part of the rule was that you can depend on management at all times to help you inform that judgment. So management’s job came to doing whatever I could. If you came in new, what would I do to help you succeed, and to trust you? What happens if you make a mistake? What happens if you make a costly mistake?
Evans: Information is coming in…
Sanders: How do I work with it? The information is coming in, and how do I not go, “Okay well, you know, what you need to do is this.” How do I do that? Because that’s when it gets really tempting, instead of, “Well, let’s look at that. What are our choices,” etc. And more times than I know, someone has come into me then later and said, “Oh my God, I wasn’t going to get that… and customs, they had closed it down, and this is what I did, and this is the work-out.” And they say, “What did you do when that happened to you?” And this is the critical thing, and I smile, and I’d say, “That never happened to me. I had many problems, but not that one, and you solved it.” And this is what we have to know, whether it’s a client, it’s an individual exchange with a client, an individual exchange with someone you’re supporting as a leader, or whether it’s throughout your organization, you can’t give the answers, you can only give the tools and support that people together, with the client, with the customs agency in that case, with whatever it is that together they can come up with the best solution. And that’s whole-brained. We need to be whole-brained.
Evans: Whole-brained, okay, and that reminds me of my favorite word in The Art of Wow curriculum which is “hmm,” Betsy.
What we’re talking about is interpersonal creativity, or as we say in the industry “Interpersonal alpha.” Steve Jobs says creativity and imagination are more important than intellect in a commoditized world. Want to be emphatic here.
Evans: Creativity and imagination are more important than intellect in a commoditized world. It is a race for the best ideas to make meaning with clients, right?
Sanders: Each time you’ve encountered this kind of creativity that has gotten a solution.
One of the things I love is, you know, people are still telling me Nordstrom stories. I’ve been gone from Nordstrom for 29 years – they still tell me Nordstrom stories. They love to tell me Nordstrom stories. And I understand. I called this kind of service… you call it “wow,” mine is “Fabled Service.” I like “wow” better – it gets there. But Fabled Service, you know, I ask people many times, I say, “what’s a fable?” And they go well, you know, they get to it’s a story that’s not true. And then somebody gets to it teaches us a lesson, right? Because, or I say, “Well, why do we remember these stories? Why do you remember Aesop, come on, tell me the story of the hare.” Oh, because there’s a lesson. I go, “Yeah, guess what Fabled Service is. Fabled Service is service from the customer’s perspective. It’s the stories they tell.” And this is why the engagement is so important as well, whoever, again, whatever level your customers are, however you connect with them, what’s important to the customers is what’s important to your business.
Period. You’ve got, I mean, excuse me, let me back up. Not period, because there’s stuff behind the scenes we don’t have to drag the customers down for. I do not have to be dragged down at this health center, this major university health center. I don’t have to be dragged down by being told, “Our system clicks off in three minutes.” I just need you to accommodate us when we’ve had a, you know, this, a three-minute emergency. Not 30, three. So we don’t need to make the sausage in front of the customers. I think the worst thing that happens to me is when someone starts to tell me in leadership, in management why they can’t do something. You know, I’m going to call out a company, Walmart. Walmart has just locked up all its cosmetics that cost anything more than $1 or $2. So I go in to buy a mascara, and 25 minutes later the other hapless customer is standing there. A woman who is putting away frozen goods that are now thawing finally comes because no one is answering the call for someone to come to cosmetics because they haven’t staffed, and she has to unlock it, and then you’re just frantic because everyone’s waiting. Okay, you know, and then they have to put it in a box that only the cashier can unlock, and then you get to buy whatever it is. Cosmetics is either a high service or a self-service, but you’ve got to do one or the other. No service doesn’t work. Okay. So what, so how do those people feel about what they’re doing? How do the systems support any kind of service? And where, you know, I don’t want to know, oh, this is why I was telling you this. So they go, “Yeah we’re having so much theft. It’s been endemic. We have to handle it inside. We don’t punish the 90-some percent of the customers who are honest,” right? And that’s what we have to do particularly again in regulated industries. Hospitals I think are doing a fabulous job for the most part of keeping all kinds of things away from us having to take on the burden while, because it doesn’t lead to healing. Hotels I think do a better job. Most hotels than retail stores. They must have incredible problems. They have 24/7 businesses, but they don’t lay them on us. And that’s just so important. So number one, you know, I love the fact we all have service jobs, and the people we all eventually are supporting are the client facing people. Without those clients we don’t have businesses.
So number one, again, I want to get granular with you…
Evans: I want to get very specific, okay. What are our advisors, and their CEOs around the world, to do as a consequence of this discussion, Betsy? Number one is to invert the pyramid, have a discussion with the team in earnest about, with whomever you would have to have the discussion with, about turning this pyramid upside down. Number two, let’s make sure the systems are allowing for creativity, and imagination, and “hmm.”
Sanders: They’re allowing for us, so see my whole thing is I think the best leaders are the ones who create the work environment, whatever degree they’re responsible for, where people can succeed at helping their customers/clients succeed. That’s my definition of great leadership. I don’t care how you do it. I don’t care about your personality, your charisma, or your gender, or anything else. What I care about is that the work environment, we said it really simply. We said, “You clear the path.” You remove the roadblocks…
Evans: Clear the path.
Sanders: So that the number one thing…
Evans: So they can make meaning with clients.
Evans: And, we have to get the job done well, that’s table stakes, right?
Sanders: Yes, oh yeah.
Evans: Operational excellence. But you and I we’re going into a space of beyond the business at hand systematically, or habitually…
Evans: Delivering wow in fabled service.
Sanders: And then, and when so, yeah I mean you’re just bringing up something important, and I don’t want to lose it, but I want to start back to what real number one is, but, so no wait. Table stakes is that you’re doing the business right…
Evans: Got to do it right.
Sanders: You’re doing right. The other table stake, the initial table stake is you want to lead a meaningful life personally. I mean if you don’t care, if you’re just getting by, none of what we’re saying matters because it won’t be true. If, you must have total integrity. You must feel life is meaningful in order to deliver a meaningful client experience, anything else.
It didn’t matter if anyone copied everything that Nordstrom ever did. They put in a piano but it was usually a player piano. They did this, they did that, they’re trying to figure it out. Didn’t matter because they did it tactically. They didn’t do it from their strategic commitment to being meaningful. You can’t differentiate your products. I mean they’re very limited. Nordstrom can, you can, we can make selections. We can merchandise them, but we can’t differentiate them.
Evans: Okay Betsy I’m going to read you a poem, part of a poem, and I want you to hear it as, and I want our listeners to hear it as just really relevant to your business enterprise, okay? And it’s called “What Will Matter” by Michael Josephson. I’m just going to read a little bit of it. “Ready or not someday it will all come to an end. There will be no more sunrises, no minutes, hours, or days. All the things you collected whether treasured or forgotten will pass to someone else. Your wealth, fame, and temporal power will shrivel to irrelevance. It will not matter what you own or what you were owed. Your grudges, resentments, frustrations, and jealousies will finally disappear. So what will matter? How will the value of your days be measured? What will matter is not what you bought but what you built. Not what you got but what you gave. What will matter is not your success but your significance. What will matter is not what you learned but what you taught. What will matter is every act of integrity, compassion, courage, wow, or sacrifice that enriched, empowered, or encouraged others to emulate your example.” We talk about wow; you have to get clarity on why you’re doing what you’re doing. Because when you get clarity on why you’re doing, we all know what we do, we all know how we do it.
Evans: So when you get clarity on why you’re doing it, wow’s have to happen, purpose beyond self has to happen, the pyramid must come about.
Sanders: It does happen.
Evans: And that is going to draw, by the way, Mr. and Mrs. Left-Brained out there…
Evans: There’s a dotted line, not a dotted line, there’s a straight line on that.
Sanders: Yeah, return…
Evans: What will matter to your practice, ladies and gentlemen, what matters to your practice? And when you get clarity on that why, wow is going to happen.
Sanders: Well exactly, because you can be trusted. See this is the thing that, it doesn’t matter if we have a title, we don’t have a title, whatever. When we come from what we hold true for ourselves, we are trusted by others. And that’s the baseline, and I’m internal right now, but it’s all true with clients and customers. I know exactly when I’m being worked, and when I’m being met. I know exactly. And when to get, and one plus one, this is pure mathematics, it’s quantum mathematics, one plus one can equal infinity. Because between the two of us we’ve already learned this, the two of us, we have no idea how much is there waiting to be ignited, and then a third thing happens.
Evans: That’s right.
Sanders: You know, and it is happening. And it does happen, and it has been happening. We are, right now is the most difficult time, for instance, for retail. And retail is so simple to understand. You have customers, and you have providers of goods, you know, and somehow they have to come together. It’s a fairly simple equation, and it’s become very, very disintermediated – “disintermediate”, I love that word. And that happens, of course, in the financial industry all the time, disintermediation. So what we’re doing is, we’re kind of, we’re rushing to systematize everything so we can be present online. But we are losing the thought, most people never had it, but even at Nordstrom for instance, whom I have utmost respect for, but they’re struggling now to, they’re forgetting they have to systematize, they have to give the support. That’s what I mean by system, at every level within their stores, and to their buyers, so that they can deliver on wow as well. Not just deliver effectively and efficiently, but on wow.
Evans: And being all in.Sanders: Yeah, being all in. It has to work. Any encounter should leave both parties better.
Evans: That’s right.
Sanders: Any encounter.
Evans: Yeah catalyzed by “hmm.”
Sanders: Because that “hmm,” you know what “hmm” is? “Hmm” is a word that I use when I’m pausing to listen. I’m pausing to let it in before I let something out, you know. I could be quick to respond…
Evans: We can train our brains on this. We want to habituate it, we want to, we have a program called “Brain Works” where we talk about, you know, expanding our capacity for mental and emotional resilience, you know. And preventing Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s, and I’m so proud of Knowledge Labs of our team creating this thing called Brain Works, and we can train our brains in 30 days. We can train our brains to “hmm.”
Sanders: So what’s the next, what should anyone listening, what’s the first step today in making certain we’re training our brains to “hmm”? What would you say?
Evans: Great question. First of all we’ve got to be earnest just like the Nordstrom fella sat down and said, “1971 we’re going this way,” right? There needs to be a proclamation, declaration. “We are going this way. It is evergreen.” We’ll never get there, but we’re going to walk toward the sunset.
Evans: That we’re always going to be… because generating a tremendous client experience is that relevant. So that’s number one. Number two is to get more practical and granular we’ve got to find somebody on the team, like these fellows found you to be the Wow Czar, or Chief Experience Officer, or Chief Clientologist, you pick your word, I don’t, you know, I don’t care about the word, what I care is that this person is empowered, just like you were in 1971.
So the advisors out there I want you to find that person who has high, high emotional intelligence. She or he could, this wow comes naturally. Now be careful, it’s not somebody who just likes people.
Evans: This is somebody who likes people, has emotional intelligence, but gets things done. I want an affable bulldog. Every advisor needs to find their Betsy Sanders right now…
Sanders: Yeah but, no, I’m going to work with “find” here. Nobody found me. I, you know, what we need to do is take the restrictions off people so the Betsy Sanders can show up. If you want to know why some of your support people are not performing, you first have to look at your relationship with them. It all works back. So we generate what we believe. We generate why, this isn’t woo woo, you know, what we think is what we, I’m not being woo, I’m being so practical. We have to first look at ourselves. And that’s great because we’re in total control. We can go to Brain Lab for a month, or do it, I don’t know if we can go physically, but we can read. We can engage. We can talk. We can ask our people what they need. What do you need to succeed?
Evans: Getting practical, the leadership must execute and live “wow.” That is the best marketing you’ll ever have. We’ve got to be sitting with those financial advisory teams out there… Sit down and have a wow audit session with your team.
With your team, if you wear a tie, loosen it. I like it best when you’ve just exercised. Everybody turns your, turn your cell phone off. What a crazy concept. But it’s the dialogue, it’s the discourse where the best ideas emerge. They hatch, they’re a wellspring when it’s a purpose beyond self-orientation, this discussion. And that’s what we need more of. And then we need to execute. And I would say for everybody who is listening, what Betsy Sanders and I want in the next two months, we want one more “wow” per week over the course of the next eight weeks.
Sanders: Oh yes, I like that a lot because…
Evans: One wow a week for…
Sanders: Amazing what happens. Amazing what happens when you, you know, I mean, I didn’t know any of this, like I said I never had a business course until I was managing a store, which was, you know, already a…
Evans: Which is instructive, by the way, for the future of business on creativity, hiring the right-brained people.
Sanders: Well, one of the most influential people I know at Stamford had the first professor of creativity that I know in a major business school, and he’s extraordinary. He’s 80 years old now and he’s still generating ideas. And that’s the other thing, I’m sitting here at my age with almost 50 years of experience in this very thing, and I am as new every day as… You don’t run out of good ideas, but it isn’t my ideas. “Wow I can’t wait to tell John this.” “Boy did I have a super idea.” It’s I’m open to having new, learning every single day. And I learned from everybody. And I also am accepting that I’m also a teacher, and because of my position, my age, you know, you gave me a glowing introduction, thank you very much. Because of all that I am a role model, and I would like each person, whatever you’re doing, however important you think you are, I’d like you to remember you’re always a role model.
Evans: The value of wow passes through…
Sanders: Oh yes.
Evans: It passes through. Southwest Airlines, I’m coaching an advisor, right, and so he’s with his client, they’re flying from Chicago, from Midway to Las Vegas, Betsy, and the client, surprisingly brings his twin daughters on the flight, okay. So there’s the information that comes in, the information comes in. So this gentleman and his client were sitting on the flight. The twin daughters are in the way back. Now I just coached him on wow. My team and I, the great Mike Futterman and I, bear down on this dude. So he’s thinking I’ve got to deliver a wow. What do I do? Well the information is coming in, now he’s going “hmm,” right? So he decides to talk to one of the flight attendants to say, “Hey look, my client here,” sort of under his breath, “My client here is, his daughters are on the plane, they’re turning 21 today, could you guys maybe do something nice…”
Sanders: Oh how nice.
Evans: So there’s the information. So the plane lands in Las Vegas, all right. And nothing really happens, there is no announcement. And so my client, what does he do, he gets mad at whom? Me…
This didn’t work, this didn’t work… So the plane pulls up, you know, and everybody is, they latch on, you know, and it opens up. The pilot comes on: “Hold on folks, before we step off, we’re going to bring a bottle of champagne into the plane because we have twins in Row 17 turning 21 today, right now, and they’ve never been to Las Vegas, so we’re going to pass back a bottle of champagne.” So you have 16 rows of people passing back a bottle of champagne…
Sanders: Oh my gosh. Tangible…
Evans: Who wins from that? Everyone, to your point.
Evans: The value you add, the value pass through is amazing. The advisor, the dad, the twins, the people on the plane, you and I right now, right?
Evans: We’re secreting good healthy hormones, right…
Sanders: We’re smiling, we’re smiling…
Evans: We’re beneficiaries of the story.
Evans: And all it came, it started with what? “Hmm.” I told you back there I’m going to empower the systems, I’m going to empower the flight attendant. She takes the information, “hmm.” They cook up this plan. Viola.
Sanders: I’m wowed. You know it occurs to me you and I naturally love people, and we’re outgoing. And if I were listening, and I were shyer, or maybe I were an introvert, I felt very, very uncomfortable, this is about, you know, with large groups, or I thought I wasn’t extrovert, I thought, you know, I could think of a lot of things because I’ve had things said to me. “Oh, it’s easy for you.” I want to say, yes, it’s easy for me, but it’s not easy for me because of my personality. It’s easy for me because of my deep, deep-seated belief that you are worth my time. My enthusiasm today comes from sitting here with you, John.
Evans: And Betsy, I want to say this has just been an incredible pleasure working with you. Thank you for what you’ve done for Janus Henderson. Thank you for what you’ve done for our clients, and our clients’ clients. We’re taking wow out to not only our advisors around the world, but our advisors’ clients. We want the world to burst with wow, being sincere, being full of surprise. It’s just such a privilege to be a part of this whole thing and thank goodness you were unleashed by Nordstrom.
Sanders: One last word, curtain call.
Evans: In English or in German?
Sanders: English. I just, people say to me all the time, “Oh you’re so busy I don’t want to bother you.” I say, “I’m not busy, I’m engaged.” I’d love to give you the word “engaged.” Every time your mind thinks busy, think engaged, engaged. And then you have to be engaged with something or someone, and then the whole power of the reciprocity and mutuality keeps you going. Forget busy, you’re not busy, you’re engaged.
Evans: Engaged, I love it. Thanks a lot Betsy Sanders…
Sanders: You’re welcome.
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